A few points that drive me nuts about the game: Powerups!

Discussion in 'Game' started by Lighthammer, Aug 29, 2013.

  1. Lighthammer

    Lighthammer Level 1: Goomba

    There are two aspects of SMCO that always drive me nuts and both seem like such easy fixes that would make the game a lot more fun:

    #1.) Characters like Simon Belmont or Bill Rizer that get multiple power-ups that fill the same slot get annoying juggling back and forth. Even in later games of both franchises, they've made a big point to stop making you choose between each weapon and instead can select the weapon once you obtained it. Can't 'we' change the game to simply to allow players to pickup the items and select between them and save the frustration?

    #2.) Losing powerups on death: Some characters like Samus and Jason require a ton of ramp time building up and getting all their items. Dying and losing all the powerups is so devastating that even with a save file, often times I Ctrl+F4 the window and stop playing if I die; either that or rely far too heavily on cheats to mitigating dying. This is especially devastating when Megaman or Bass dies.

    #3.) Some items are really powerful enough they almost warrant having to kill a Koopa to obtain. Mega Man and Bass for instance, may feel better if they had to get their powerups from killing a Koopa. I think Jason and Samus about feel the same. Game Wins followed by restarts probably should carry over all items you earned that round if said changes were added. Heck, I think the levels are diverse enough now, that you can almost justify which items drop off which Koopa in which level.
  2. Rey D

    Rey D Level 12: Super Mod

    For accuracy to source game reasons, Exploding Rabbit won't change the power-up system for Bill and Simon.
    SMBC stick to the NES and SNES era for Bill and Simon, and in those games, they can't choose which weapon they want to keep.
    For concrete examples, characters in Castlevania (excluding Simon's Quest) games couldn't change weapons once they picked up one out of a loot until Rondo of Blood on PC Engine, ported as Dracula X/Vampire's Kiss on SNES.

    That is indeed making things difficult, but they already have much advantages, so it's only fair that they lose so much weapons, just like the Mario brothers do.
    In fact, they even keep some powerups (with default settings) when hit.

    Once again, accuracy to sources, it wouldn't make sense to get a certain powerup by killing a certain common enemy, and get the powerup in the next level.
  3. World 1-1

    World 1-1 Level 6: Lakitu

    The objective the characters in the game is to keep them as close as possible of the classic games, not the later games.

    If you get a item after you get hit, on the same level, you get them all again. If I recall you can turn off losing weapons in the menu.
  4. Lighthammer

    Lighthammer Level 1: Goomba

    #1 - As I already pointed out --- there are precedents for doing this in many of the later Castlevania and Kontra games. This isn't exactly railing against game design. If the current franchise runners recognize its annoying, I think a group like Exploding Rabbit, who is actually looking at good game design elements, could consider it =P.

    #2 - Jason and to a much lesser degee, Samus, do have a big advantage. Most of Mega Man / Bass's powerfuls are mostly benign (save the all might Metal Blade). I've often felt Jason should be nerfed a bit to bring him in line with the other characters. The wall walks, for instance, are almost overkill in this game as is the homing missiles.

    #3 - You're === umm --- misunderstanding me. I mean KOOPA, not Koopa Troopers. As in you beat world 1, you get a powerup. That's much more in keeping with accuracy of sources because all the characters I mentioned only get their big powerups from beating a boss (generally speaking) not from random drops.
  5. World 1-1

    World 1-1 Level 6: Lakitu

    As I said...

    Most of us don't want stuff from later games. It ruins the classic game feel.
  6. Rey D

    Rey D Level 12: Super Mod

    SMBC is a celebration of retro games. To be more explicit, the SMBC engine is a reproduction of NES games. Therefore, the weapon system has to stick to Castlevania and Contra.

    It's either Bowser or King Koopa, not Koopa, which is the name of every... Koopa.

    Anyway, Mega Man's gameplay has been modified to work with the SMB world. It therefore has to pick up its weapons. It's actually closer than your suggestion, as the order in which you get your weapons is not set in stone.

    As for Samus, she's never got weapons from bosses in the classic games, as far as I know.
    Omicron likes this.
  7. aliceandsven

    aliceandsven Level 9: Spike Top

    I can't even think of a castlevania game other than CVII that let you switch between sub-weapons collected. I can't remember if the things in CVII were actually sub-weapons or just different equipment for Simon, either.

    Regarding Konami saying holding onto one sub-weapon is annoying; do you have a source for that?

    Finally, it doesn't really matter too much what happened later in the series or how Konami feels today, because that is not the period of time which this game is focusing on.

    I don't really see a good reason for this kind of change to Simon. The way it is now actually helps add some variety between the characters.
  8. Rey D

    Rey D Level 12: Super Mod

    After thinking thtough, I think Portrait of Ruin is the only one.

    One slot for sub-weapon and one slot for equipment.
  9. Lighthammer

    Lighthammer Level 1: Goomba

    Let's pull from just a few games SMCO has sprites for:

    Castlevana II most certainly had the ability to change sub weapons, Castlevania Blood Lines allowed you to pick between two different items at the same time, Symphony of the Night again, was an inventory system and zoom way ahead to Rebirth and its again a system that allows you to choose what item to take. This is just touching on different attempts to clean up the system that are off the top of my head. That being said, the only reason Castlevania III went back to the Castlevania I system was because the focus on the game was characters, not sub-weapons. You could complete the game without caring about which subweapon you had. The same applied to Castlevania IV, but only because the new dynamics with the whip made every other subweapon absolutely unuseful in comparison.

    There's been plenty of commentary throughout the evolution of Castlevania that many players absolutely hated getting forced to change subweapons if they accidently picked up something they didn't want; that was a big reason for the changes in Castlevania II and there were some really good articles written about and interviews done about it leading towards the release of Rebirth.

    Making something badly designed just to make it different isn't making a good design decision.

    Rey-D --- all you're doing is playing word games now =( --- In your own passage yourself, you've illustrated that many people call Koopa many things and he has been addressed under many monikers.

    Also, World1-1 --- I would be VERY CAREFUL advocating yourself as the soul spokesman for people you may not speaking for. A lot of people may take great offense to that, but beyond that, you are absolutely asserting an authority you have no way to back up. Keep that in mind whenever you use the terms "We" or "Us" on forums. It presumes you speak for everyone when in reality, nothing has given you that level of authority. Its always best to keep your thoughts confined to yourself (using pronouns such as I) or qualifying them through observations.
  10. aliceandsven

    aliceandsven Level 9: Spike Top

    "Symphony of the Night"

    Actually, even though the game is so different, it still has sub-weapons that you have to carry one at a time. SotN's inventory system is not relevant to the iteration of Simon in SMBC. Again, it's a completely different time-period and era of the CV series.

    I've played Bloodlines and don't remember being able to carry more than one sub-weapon. Even so, that is Bloodlines, irrelevant as well, because that isn't the gameplay SMBC is trying to emulate.

    Again, you need to source your claims about this "commentary" of it being annoying. Many people have no problems with this, and calling it "bad design" is not even close to fact, it's just your opinion. Even if Konami says it was bad, that still doesn't make it fact. If people enjoy something, they enjoy it, it's subjective.

    Since you're a CV fan you should also be aware that CVII was the "odd child" of the NES series and not liked as much as the other two.

    This feature would be anachronistic to this iteration of Simon. It's as simple as that.

    "I would be VERY CAREFUL advocating yourself as the soul spokesman for people you may not speaking for. A lot of people may take great offense to that, but beyond that, you are absolutely asserting an authority you have no way to back up. Keep that in mind whenever you use the terms "We" or "Us" on forums. It presumes you speak for everyone when in reality, nothing has given you that level of authority. Its always best to keep your thoughts confined to yourself (using pronouns such as I) or qualifying them through observations."

    You're kind of putting words in his mouth now. "Most of us" (what he actually said) is not an absolute statement, and does not "advocate himself as the sole spokesman" for the forums, nor is it "asserting authority". That much should have been clear. I think if you asked him about this instead of jumping to conclusions he would agree that isn't what he was trying to do.

    I would appreciate it if we could not dwell on that though, because it's off-topic and edging towards getting personal which isn't necessary.
    Rey D, Omicron and TheomanZero like this.
  11. Lighthammer

    Lighthammer Level 1: Goomba

    @ aliceandsven - Using "We" on forums is just a huge pet peeve because so many people like to make their opinion sound more important then it might otherwise be by proclaiming it to be speaking for more then themselves. It just happens too often in discussions =(. Enough said on that topic.

    I sourced the material as good as I'm going to be able to without doing a research looking for old articles with lots of dust on them, but I did give the time frames these comments were made so they are absolutely referenceable. The "Did you know" series on Youtube that highlights Castlevania actually DOES talk about all these points.

    Also, I will sadly admit I am only a passing fan of Castlevania. Its not like the Mega Man or Zelda series where at one point I had every game in the series, sadly. But I certainly have played a wide, wide, wide range of Castlevania.
  12. Omicron

    Omicron Level 9: Spike Top

    One of the things that make me like Harmony so much, to the point where I believe it's the pinnacle of the old generation, is the classic gameplay. Including the single secondary, it makes for strategy. Will you keep the Knife until you find the Ice Book or drop it for the better Axe?
  13. World 1-1

    World 1-1 Level 6: Lakitu

    It's not my thought, it's really OURS, man. I speak for us because I've been here for a long time, and I already saw people like you requesting things from newer games, and a bunch of people disagreed right away. Some people even started fighting because of that. If I made a poll asking who wanted stuff from newer games, at least 80% of the people would say no.
    Omicron likes this.
  14. huang17

    huang17 Level 3: Paratroopa

    Call him Bowser. I call the smaller turtles "Koopas."
    ThomasMink and Faruga like this.
  15. Faruga

    Faruga Level 12: Super Mod

    Look, just call him Bowser and stop arguing. Calling him Koopa is too confusing and it makes me think you're Japanese.
    huang17 and MissingNo2 like this.
  16. Rey D

    Rey D Level 12: Super Mod

    I, just as alice don't, don't rememeber that. What's the button to change your sub-weapon ? I only remember one sub-weapon slot.

    Like alice said, the inventory system is irrelevant, and sub-weapons work with the pickup-and-have system. It uses the system from Rondo of Blood where your old sub-weapon drops off.

    Again, the current system is the one from the original Castlevania. It won't change because it works right. You just have to be careful with your every decision and move, and it's pretty much an appeal from classic Castlevania games.

    Not really. I don't know where you got that, but Bowser is only refered as the names I mentioned in every source I've seen.
    Imagine having a general Castlevania discussion, and one says: "Belmont's powers were the best". The first question that would come would be "which one?".
  17. Ravicai

    Ravicai Level 2: Koopa

    I always referred to him as King Koopa... but I also watched the cartoon a lot growing up.
    Faruga likes this.
  18. AkumaXX

    AkumaXX Level 3: Paratroopa

    Just a note, the SFC Contra Spirits / SNES Contra 3 allows players to hold 2 guns, but only the using one will be lost on death.

    But if this game has to follow NES standard, then just let it be.
  19. Faruga

    Faruga Level 12: Super Mod

    It doesn't. The people here are just biased.
  20. Rey D

    Rey D Level 12: Super Mod

    Bill Rizer is based on his NES appearance in the original Contra, and therefore wouldn't work right with SNES gameplay.

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