Implemented Keep certain upgrades after taking damage

Discussion in 'Features' started by TheomanZero, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. TheomanZero

    TheomanZero Level 9: Spike Top

    I think that when you take damage, you should lose "upgrade"-type items (Red Ring, Varia Suit, Energy Balancer, Sword Extension, etc.), but keep "sub-weapon"-type items (pretty much anything with limited ammo). The former feel like luxury items that should be hard to keep, but the latter feel like a basic part of gameplay that you should keep until you die. Having sub-weapons should be a rule rather than an exception, and you have to manage the ammo supplies anyway.
    On another note, I agree that getting rid of the Bomb Bag/Quiver/Missile Expansion items was a good idea, but I think you should get the increased capacities to begin with -- you only start with a little and you still have to collect the ammo to fill them up anyway.
    EDIT: Maybe you can still lose everything on Hard? Maybe.
     
    Frozsoul and Mitewing like this.
  2. uglyrodent

    uglyrodent Level 9: Spike Top

    Link and Samus would lose very little (between them, Link's blue and red suits, Varia Suit, Wave/Ice Beam, Boomerang Upgrade, Morph Ball and Screw Attack) and be left with a decent amount (Bow, Missiles, Bombs), but Simon, Ryu, Mega Man, and Bass would lose everything anyway (all of their upgrades use ammo, except for the sword upgrade and Simon's item amount bonuses which are lost with the item in Castlevania anyway). This would just serve to make Link and Samus a bit more powerful than everyone else.
     
  3. TheomanZero

    TheomanZero Level 9: Spike Top

    What? I'm saying Simon, Ryu, Mega Man, and Bass should keep their weapons. Was I not clear enough? Here's what I think you should keep when you take damage:
    Link: Bow, Bombs
    Mega Man/Bass: Robot Master Weapons
    Simon: Current sub-weapon
    Samus: Missiles
    Ryu: Current sub-weapon
    Sophia: Shells (both kinds)
     
    Mitewing likes this.
  4. Mitewing

    Mitewing Level 9: Spike Top

    I agree. At least subweapons should be kept. This makes the later levels more fair. I started a similar thread in Features to request the option to choose from the three current poweup systems regardless of difficulty. I personally feel nothing should be lost unless a life is lost. That's how most characters with a life meter operate in their original games.
     
  5. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    Or, simply have the players get everything back upon getting a mushroom rather than a flower.

    Or, incorporate life bars and don't have the characters lose anything upon getting hit. :p
     
  6. Mitewing

    Mitewing Level 9: Spike Top

    I think they get everything back by getting a mushroom right now on easy. But not sure since I have only played normal and very easy.
     
  7. TheomanZero

    TheomanZero Level 9: Spike Top

    Mario takes two power-ups to get back up to full power, so it's only fair that everyone else does, too.
    Life bars seem like a good idea, but ammo drops work so well right now because they're the only things enemies can drop. Adding health pickups would make it too complicated. Remember, Super Mario Bros. was not designed to have enemy drops at all. We're lucky it works as well as it does.
     
  8. BTB

    BTB Level 5: Spiny

    I agree (with the topic's main point) completely. Several characters have a shit-ton of upgrades that they will lose if they take just a single hit, and a lot of them just don't feel like the upgrades are worth the trouble to get given how easy they are to lose (Mega Man and Link in particular).

    Main weapons like the wave beam, or even Link's magical boomerang, should be lost, but things like missiles, arrows, bombs, etc. should be retained. Otherwise, each hit means having to find five or six more upgrades. And remember that this game was originally designed with a grand total of two possible upgrades. This new update adds many more upgrades, but it doesn't add any more upgrade *opportunities*.

    I've been playing survival mode, myself, and I've noticed that lives are more or less pointless (if 1-ups serve a purpose, I've yet to find it). And I got to thinking that perhaps the reward for collecting 100 coins should be a random upgrade instead of an extra life. And perhaps (in survival mode, at least) 1-up mushrooms should do the same.
     
  9. Faruga

    Faruga Level 12: Super Mod
    Patron

    In Survival Mode, when you finish a castle, you can use lives to revive characters.
     
  10. BTB

    BTB Level 5: Spiny

    I'm aware of that. However, from what I can tell, the number of "lives" you get at the beginning of each world is set. Getting 1-ups or extra lives from 100 coins doesn't seem to affect it.
     
  11. Faruga

    Faruga Level 12: Super Mod
    Patron

    Yeah, I was playing Survival today. First I had 3 and then I had 1.
     
    uglyrodent likes this.
  12. Mitewing

    Mitewing Level 9: Spike Top

    In Survival, you can use extra lives to either revive or give existing character two random upgrades. Mario/Luigi get fireflowers.
     
  13. BTB

    BTB Level 5: Spiny

    Yes, I know. See my post above for the response to that.
     
  14. uglyrodent

    uglyrodent Level 9: Spike Top

    No it isn't. It's entirely based around the lives you gather during the previous world. Maybe the way you play just always leaves you with the same amount? I know I tend to get into my habits of how I go through each world (I almost never gather a life in World 1 unless I focus on it myself).
     
  15. Mitewing

    Mitewing Level 9: Spike Top

    Currently, we have been talking about changing the Damage/Upgrade system. I suggested not losing anything until dying, but TheomanZero's suggestion of losing upgrades and not subweapons meets in the middle crossing the original games with SMB. I have compiled certain suggestions from various threads regarding individual characters. I thought I'd post them here.

    Bill: No changes
    Bass: Does he get an upgrade to his primary weapon when he gets a Mushroom?
    Link: He doesn't begin with Boomerang.The Magic Sword and Red Ring are separated again.
    Mega Man: Like in MM 3, he begins with Rush Coil. The high jump remains.
    Ryu: He gets Sword Extension with Mushroom, like how all other characters get upgrade for their primary weapon.
    Samus: Jay was correct to combine Bombs with Mari Maru. Rolling into a ball without bombs in SMB is pointless. Missle tanks were in original game, so they are like Ryu's scrolls. So I can take them or leave them.
    Simon: No changes.
    SOPHIA III: No changes, until Jason is added, that is.
     
  16. BTB

    BTB Level 5: Spiny

    I'm assuming, of course, we're suggesting that bombs/bow and arrow/boomerang all be retained even if Link is hit.

    Fair enough. I'm not sure where all of his subweapons would fall in the "you keep them if you get hit" department, though, since they're pretty much his only upgrades.

    Perhaps Mega Man could get an e-tank upgrade to represent extra defense (i.e. taking another hit) in lieu of a mushroom. This would make him a one hit-point wonder like Bill unless he happened to get it.

    More or less, though I have suggested removing the mushroom/fire flower from all characters except the Mairo Bros. and working in taking an extra hit into the individual upgrades of each character. The sword being one of Ryu's only non-subweapon upgrades, is the most logical place to put it.

    So, really, the biggest problem with Ryu (Belmont has this problem, as well) is that his main weapon upgrade is a pain in the ass to find because it has such a low chance of appearing due to all of his sub-weapons. Making it to where the sub-weapons won't appear until he gets it (i.e. using it in place of the mushroom), would help tremendously.
     
  17. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    Isn't that just a mushroom that looks like an E-Tank? o.o
     
  18. BTB

    BTB Level 5: Spiny

    Depends on how it's used. If it's a prerequisite to get any of Mega Man's subweapons, then yes.

    If it's mixed in with the subweapons, then no.
     
  19. TheomanZero

    TheomanZero Level 9: Spike Top

    No, at least not yet.
    I'd prefer she started with the Morph Ball and got bombs as a power-up. That would make it easier for her to get past Bowser with no power-ups (by rolling under him when he jumps). Plus she started with the Morph Ball in Metroid II, so there's precedent.
     
    Mitewing likes this.
  20. BTB

    BTB Level 5: Spiny

    Also, Ryu and Belmont should both start with their shitty subweapons (regular shuriken and knife, respectively).

    I've noticed that both of these characters, particularly Ryu, have a tough time dealing with Bowser if he has no platform floating above him because they both have poor jumping skills and lack an infinitely-spammable projectile attack.
     

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