Mario is overshadowed

Discussion in 'Characters' started by Scorpion42, Apr 24, 2011.

  1. Scorpion42

    Scorpion42 Level 6: Lakitu

    One problem I have with this game is that the other characters are all unnecessarily powerful, whilst Mario is just Mario. You could just buff up Mario to solve the problem, but then it wouldn't be Super Mario Bros. Crossover anymore in my opinion. Instead, it's the other characters that need balancing.

    Everybody's weapons can break blocks but Mario's. The only way Mario can break blocks is with his head, and that's only when he's Super Mario. But his fireballs just pop on the surface of a brick wall, while everybody else just shoot it, even if they couldn't in their original game.

    Speaking of which, several character's abilities has been ridiculously exaggerated. In Ninja Gaiden, Ryu can only climb walls if he has a ladder. Link could not downward thrust in The Legend of Zelda. Simon can only break one piece of wall at a time in Castlevania, and Mega Man needs a special weapon to do it. Same thing for SOPHIA, whose wall-climbing abilities Jay has also increased. Then of course, there is the ammo issues for Ryu and Simon, although Jay might fix those in the future without a prompt.
     
  2. aliceandsven

    aliceandsven Level 9: Spike Top

    Ryu does gain the ability to climb up and down walls, I believe in NG3.
     
  3. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    I don't see why this is a problem. The whole point is to enjoy playing through Super Mario Bros. with different NES characters. IMO, Mario is there more out of necessity than anything.

    As far as the power levels go, Mario's fireballs do more damage than anything else in the entire game. He 1HKOs everything (except Bowser). Mario also functions the way he's supposed to in his own game. All of the other characters being able to destroy bricks with their attacks makes sense. Mario is a fat plumber who has to punch the bricks. Mega Man is a robot that shoots bursts of plasma. Ryu is a ninja with a katana (and katanas are known for their incredibly sharp edges). Bill Rizer is a man with a gun! Shooting bricks enough with a gun is going to break the bricks. I think you get the idea.

    As for the added abilities, Ryu can climb any walls in the later NG games. Link was designed to behave like a cross between the LoZ Link and the Z2 Link, sinze Z2 Link isn't in the game. The changes made to SOPHIA's wall climbing are probably the most frivolous changes, but they are also by no means game breaking.

    I for one like the game as it is, and I highly doubt Jay is going to be nerfing characters anyway.
     
  4. Scorpion42

    Scorpion42 Level 6: Lakitu

    That is, until Jay adds a multiplayer mode of some sort. Then you'd have to do something about it.

    Well that isn't doing you much good when you act like your soles are covered in vaseline and don't know how to crawl.

    I think you missed the point of my post. Everybody else claims that Mario is underpowered, while I say that it is the other characters's fault.

    That makes sense?! Even if Mario knew kung-fu, he's still doing it wrong.

    But they can't tear through a brick wall in just one swing! It's a fucking brick wall!

    Yes. I do get the idea. Repeatedly slamming you head into bricks at 40 miles p/h is eventually going to break the bricks, and throwing balls of fire that can send The King of Koopa Kingdom to oblivion in under ten blasts into the bricks is also eventually going to break them. NOT THAT EITHER OF THOSE THINGS HAPPEN IN THE GAME

    Are you kidding me? I could never have completed the game on Extreme if it weren't for SOPHIA's (Game) Breaker Beam and Homing Missiles.
     
  5. ketchupninja

    ketchupninja Level 9: Spike Top

    They play like their original games.OP? Somewhat. Fun? Yes. and fun is the goal here.

    And I'm sure bumping a brick wall with you're head would indeed have devastating consequences for the wall. ITS A GAME.




    Extreme mode is kinda *meant* to be hard.
     
  6. Scorpion42

    Scorpion42 Level 6: Lakitu

    Yes. I do get the idea. Repeatedly slamming you head into bricks at 40 miles p/h is eventually going to break the bricks[/QUOTE]
    You can't just go from
    to
    He was trying to put logic into it, and i'm dismissing it.


    But it is not that hard with SOPHIA.
     
  7. ketchupninja

    ketchupninja Level 9: Spike Top

    I don't see what you're arguing here...he's saying that since mario can destroy bricks with his jump, which is his main move, other characters should be able to destroy blocks with their weapons.


    Then don't use missiles if you want it to be harder.
     
  8. uglyrodent

    uglyrodent Level 9: Spike Top

    This is not a fault with the game at all; this is something NINTENDO did when they made SMB. And Mario's slide is actually EXTREMELY useful is used correctly. Also, you said you were claiming that it is the other characters' power making Mario seem weak, but this is clearly a complaint of how weak Mario is.

    Ketchupninja said this, but it bears repeating: THIS IS A VIDEO GAME. An especially strange one at that. Fiction does not match up with reality in most cases, and despite your feelings about that it is not a fault with the game.

    The game was made to pose a challenge to Mario, and as such they made the bricks unbreakable with the fireballs. To make it harder for him. Jay decided they could use weapons to break the bricks, but in the interest of fidelity kept Mario from being able to do it. If that explanation doesn't work for you, then the fire is not sustained and therefore is not able to reach a hot enough point to melt the bricks OR explode them.
    EDIT: Come to think of it, on Normal mode (the standard for measurements), the fireballs kill Bowser in five shots, so one of the things you said does not happen actually does happen (Bowser dying in less than 10 shots).
    Yes, SOPHIA's wall climbing makes her a powerful character. Game breaking, though, is a stretch. Ryu can chill just to the left of the bridge and hit Bowser with shurikens until he dies, easily avoiding the fire. So can Bill, Mario (with a flower), and Samus (with a Mushroom or Flower) with their respective projectiles. Just because SOPHIA is a little more mobile, she is by no means broken.
     
  9. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    I don't get what SOPHIA's weapons have to do with the wall climbing ability...

    The wall and ceiling climbing abilities were both present in Blaster Master. The only difference is that SOPHIA can now jump off of the walls. Uglyrodent is right--it is definitely not a game-breaking ability.
     
  10. Superleaf

    Superleaf Level 1: Goomba

    Mario's advantage is his mobility more than anything. He is the fastest moving character and his projectiles kill most enemies in a single shot while other characters have to shoot them multiple times. Mario is also the only other character besides sophia that can swim making him an excellent choice for water levels.

    Mario is in no way overshadowed, if anything, I say ryu is the one who is in need of improvement. Most of the time when I'm playing as ryu, I find that I'm running past a ton of enemies simply because it takes way too long to kill them and NONE of his attacks stun. He's almost like a cross between mario and link or something and it just doesn't seem to work for me. He's slightly faster than other characters but he is so weak that your better off just playing as mario or somebody else with adaquate firepower.
     
  11. ketchupninja

    ketchupninja Level 9: Spike Top

    I feel his wall climbin abilities and ranged attacks make up for his somewhat weak attack power.
     
  12. Scorpion42

    Scorpion42 Level 6: Lakitu

    Half the time you argue that it's just a game, and you can't put logic into it, and the other half you say that it makes sense that Mario's fireballs is the only weapon that can't break blocks even though they are so poweful against everything else.

    I guess my only real problem is that so many weapons can break blocks even though they couldn't in their original games. I'm not saying that all weapons should be unable to break blocks, I'm just saying that Ryu being able to break brick walls with shuriken is stupidly overpowered in my opinion.
     
  13. ketchupninja

    ketchupninja Level 9: Spike Top

    We're saying that from the LOGIC OF A VIDEO GAME, it makes sense. Mario breaks blocks w/his main attack, so the others should. it's not as if breaking blocks is game breaking.
    Are blocks meant to be invincible deadly enemies, and without them being all powerful, the game is empty and pointless?! It takes Ryu multiple shurikens to break blocks, it not as if one shuriken will obliterate a line of blocks. THE MARIO BLOCKS ARE NOT THE BLOCKS THAT WERE IN THE OTHERS RESPECTIVE GAME. Mario/ break blocks with head. Ryu/ break blocks with sword. I DO NOT see how breaking blocks is game-breaking.
     
  14. Rey D

    Rey D Level 12: Super Mod
    Patron

    Mario works like he's supposed to be. It's the best if you want challenges and he got my butt out of some crap because he runs and jumps better than any character. Characters can destroy bricks and that doesn't make sense, so doesn't breaking a brick with your punch.
     
  15. Scorpion42

    Scorpion42 Level 6: Lakitu

    Mario doesn't break blocks with his main attack.
     
  16. Rey D

    Rey D Level 12: Super Mod
    Patron

    Yes, he does. Mario's attack is his jump. That's the first thing people know about Mario, right?
     
  17. ketchupninja

    ketchupninja Level 9: Spike Top

    His main attack is his jump. He breaks blocks with his jump.
     
  18. aliceandsven

    aliceandsven Level 9: Spike Top

    I think the very essence of SMBC is to actually break the game, make it unbalanced, make it fun in ways that you could only have dreamed of as a little child of 80s sitting in front of your TV and NES.

    There's a saying that "Imbalance is a sort of balance". Yes the characters are on different levels when you compare them to each other. But the game is balanced in the sense that you can play as other Nintendo characters in SMB, and it really feels like you're playing as that character. Eventually Jay will improve this feeling and make each character more accurate. That is the balance that SMBC strives for, not necessarily how good one character is compared to another.

    Anyway I would like to repeat two points; Mario's fireballs are fucktastic, and he's the fastest character in the game, the only option for serious speed-running endeavors.
     
  19. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    Whether or not it makes sense for the characters to break the blocks with their attacks rather than by jumping into them, isn't the game more fun the way it is? Isn't it more enjoyable to throw axes through piles of bricks in 1-2 and 4-2 than to not be able to? Isn't it more enjoyable to mow down rows upon rows of bricks with the spread gun? Isn't it more enjoyable to be able to just tear through a brick wall with a katana than to have to stop and climb over it?

    I believe Jay designed SMBC to be fun above all else. The other characters are more powerful than Mario, even in their own games. Try putting Mario into one of Mega Man's games. He wouldn't last very long. Or put Mario into Ninja Gaiden. He'd get stuck at the first high wall because he can't climb walls. With SMBC, The other characters have been put into a world in which they don't belong, but that's the whole point of the game. No one should complain that SOPHIA is overpowered because it's a flying tank! Bill is a man with a machine gun! Ryu is a shuriken-throwing ninja! Samus is an armored bounty hunter from space! None of them are properly suited for the SMB world, but that's the point. They are all too powerful no matter what. Nerfing them would mean nerfing their own natural abilities from their own games. You can't change the fact the SOPHIA is a flying, missile-firing tank, and you can't take away Bill's machine gun. Enjoy the game the way it was made, because it was made that way for the purpose of being enjoyed. :)
     
  20. Koari

    Koari Level 7: Bloober

    Mario has become Luigi

    /thread
     

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