Mega Man's Special Weapons

Discussion in 'Characters' started by sbq92, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    Hey everyone! I've decided to start up a thread for a discussion regarding Mega Man's special weapons. A lot of what I'm going to post here can be found on the wiki, but I'm posting it here so we can get more community involvement.

    Here are my thoughts on how Mega Man's special weapons should work (be warned, this is a long post):

    First, I think Mega Man should obtain each special weapon after finishing a world. The special weapon obtained should corresponds with the world just completed (e.g., Rolling Cutter from Mega Man would be obtained after completing World 1, and Metal Blade from Mega Man 2 would be obtained after completing World 2). Now, either the special weapons would be set (i.e., you always get Rolling Cutter, Metal Blade, etc.) or randomized from among all available weapons from each game (e.g., you could get Rolling Cutter one time through the game, then next time through you could get Ice Slasher, then next time you could get Super Arm). This second option would be a lot more work for Jay, since he would have to program more than forty weapons into the game in order for this to work. It would be a nice payoff, but still a lot of work. The first option would probably require some community agreement, but I do think each weapon should come from each corresponding game. As for World 7, since there was technically no Mega Man 7 for the NES (there is a fan made "demake" for PC, Rockman 7 FC, but I think we should stick to the NES games), Mega Man could get two unique weapons from defeating Bowser: Bowser Flame and Bowser Hammer. This would bump the number of his special weapons up to eight, which would correspond with the traditional number of weapons he gets in his own games.

    Second, I think the Rush power-ups ought to be involved. At the very least, Rush Jet and Rush Marine should be included. While Rush Marine would always be on the menu, it would only be usable in underwater areas, and it would drain at a steady rate (like in Mega Man 3), but enemies could drop weapon energy, so you would have a chance to refill it. Rush Jet should probably behave like he does in Mega Man 4, since he is super broken in Mega Man 3 (you can use him to fly anywhere). This means that once you hop on Rush Jet, he automatically moves forward, although you can hold forward or backward to speed him up a bit or slow him down a bit, and you can move him up and down. The Rush Jet Adapter and the Rush Power Adapter would be great additions as well. The number of Rush power-ups should be considered carefully, however. Too many could just be ridiculous.

    It should be noted that due to the necessity of Rush Coil, it would never use weapon energy, unless it was just 1 unit instead of 4 units like in the original games. Using 1 unit occasionally would be quite easy to refill through killing enemies. However, having to use it for four stages before a refill (see below) could be a bit much. Therefore, it really ought to simply not use of weapon energy.

    EDIT: As for obtaining the Rush power-ups, they could either simply start in Mega Man's possession, or they could be obtained from completing the first two worlds (or first four, if the Adapters are included). Rush Marine would have to be obtained after completing World 1 in order to be used in World 2, and Rush Jet could be obtained after completing World 2. The Adapters could then be obtained after completing Worlds 3 and 4, although I am personally indifferent to which one is obtained after which world.

    As a side note, any thoughts on Items 1, 2, and 3 (from Mega Man 2)? And how about the Balloon and Wire Adapters (from Mega Man 4)?

    Third, I personally think that Mega Man's special weapons should be usable at all power-up levels. There have been suggestions stating they should only be usable with a Fire Flower, but I feel that is not very practical for the following reasons. First, Mega Man is not going to have many weapons until later in the game (if the above method of obtaining them is used) and, unless they are horribly broken, they aren't going to break the game anyway, since they all have limited usage. Second, by the time Mega Man the weapons will be more useful (i.e., later in the game, in the more difficult stages), it will be more difficult for Mega Man to keep the Fire Flower power-up, and thus there would be no help from the special weapons which have been designed to help him.

    Fourth, I think Mega Man's Fire Storm should either behave the way it does in Mega Man (i.e., no charging, but it has that brief fire wheel around Mega Man whenever he fires the weapon) or be changed to Atomic Fire, since Atomic Fire already has a charge ability. In either case, however, I think the Fire Flower default weapon should not use up weapon energy, since it is his default weapon. Therefore, Fire Storm (or Atomic Fire) would never be a special weapon option after finishing World 1 (or World 2), since it is Mega Man's default weapon anyway. This would mean that Mega Man would never have Fire Storm (or Atomic Fire) if he doesn't collect a Fire Flower, but that seems like a small loss.

    Alternatively, Mega Man's power-ups could behave differently, and he could potentially never have Fire Storm (or Atomic Fire) as his default weapon. His power-ups could be:
    • Basic: No helmet, no sliding, no charging, takes double damage (if an energy bar is implemented)
    • Super Mushroom: Helmet, sliding, no charging, takes normal damage
    • Fire Flower: Helmet, sliding, charging, takes normal damage
    This way, Fire Storm (or Atomic Fire) could be obtained as a special weapon, and we wouldn't have to worry about Mega Man making use of a special weapon without using weapon energy.

    Fifth, if Mega Man obtains a Fire Flower while he already has a Fire Flower, it could simply behave like a large weapon energy capsule (10 units refilled). This way, they aren't useless. They could also behave like the Weapon Energy Balancer, that is, they could refill the special weapon with the lowest energy if Mega Man has either no weapon selected or a full weapon selected. Mega Man could even have a built-in Weapon Energy Balancer, although this could be a cheat or something.

    Sixth, Mega Man will need a menu system, and while the menu from Mega Man and Mega Man 2 is the most simple (and possibly the most iconic), given the large selection of weapons and Rush options (12-14), a menu in the style from Mega Man 4 and up would probably be ideal. This menu style pauses the game and brings up a full-screen menu, but it has all the icons of the weapons along with the weapon names.

    As a side comment regarding energy bars, I think Mega Man needs one, and I'm assuming if a weapon energy bar is implemented, he would have an energy bar implemented. I propose that if he is hit, he takes damage accordingly (i.e., whichever enemy hit him), and he also loses his current power-up level. This way, he can still lose the Fire Flower and Super Mushroom (and therefore charging and sliding), but he doesn't simply die upon being hit with no power-ups. It's the best of both worlds, really.

    Well, that's about it for special weapon ideas. I personally think this would be the best way to incorporate the special weapons into SMBC, but I obviously don't have the final say. :p

    Any thoughts, suggestions, comments?

    EDIT: A couple more thoughts.

    Weapon energy should only be refilled at the end of each world, rather than at the end of each level. This would make special weapon usage a bit more strategic, and also more like Mega Man's games.

    Also, once a special weapon is obtained from the end of a world, no more can be obtained from that world. That is, using the Level Select cheat to go back to 1-4 will not get you any more special weapons, even if the special weapon is selected at random.
     
  2. World 1-1

    World 1-1 Level 6: Lakitu

    What a wall of post!
     
  3. Captain Knight

    Captain Knight Level 6: Lakitu

    Ok, first things first. We have to pick what the weapons are going to be.

    Is the weapons going to be the best one form each game? Like the Metal Blades? If so, that might be a little broken. Maybe we should take a vote on the FAVORITE weapon, instead of best?

    Second, I just want to include that this makes MM less like he's in a Mario world and more like he's in a MM world. I know somebody else WAS going to point this out, but let's get this over with. Maybe if you beat World 1-4 boss, you get a lower weapon, since it IS a low level Bowser?

    This is my suggestion/comment, sbq92 :D
     
  4. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    The weapons wouldn't have to be the best. More likely the favorite, as you're suggesting.

    It's true this does make it more like a Mega Man world and less like a Mario world, but since Jay wants to include special weapons anyway, this is my attempt at coming up with a reasonable and fun way to do so. One thing that has been suggested has been that collecting a Fire Flower while you already have one gives you a permanent special weapon. This isn't necessarily a bad idea, but I think getting a new weapon at the end of each world gives a better feeling of progression, and it does help Mega Man play like he does in his own game. Also, some levels have multiple Fire Flowers. It could get a bit ridiculous collecting several special weapons in one stage, unless it were limited to only one special weapon per stage. That is still a lot of special weapons, though. One per world seems reasonable to me.

    As for the "lower weapon," are you suggesting rather than go from game-to-game, go from weaker weapons to stronger weapons? So, start with something weak like the Plant Barrier and work your way up until you get something much stronger like Crash Bomb? This idea could work, but it gets a bit more subjective, since some special weapons may technically be "weak," but could be incredibly useful in some cases nonetheless.

    For the weapons from each game, on the wiki I suggested the following:

    • Mega Man: Super Arm
    • Mega Man 2: Metal Blade (yes it's broken, but it is also incredibly iconic, and many people would probably be upset to not see it in the game...)
    • Mega Man 3: Gemini Laser
    • Mega Man 4: Drill Bomb
    • Mega Man 5: Charge Kick
    • Mega Man 6: Plant Barrier (one shield weapon seems necessary)
    • World 7: Bowser Flame and Bowser Hammer or Thunder Strike (Cloud Man's weapon) from Rockman 7 FC
    These were just my own suggestions, and I am completely open to change.
     
  5. bnjay29

    bnjay29 Level 4: Buzzy Beetle

    Careful suggestion should be made with the weapon choices. You don't want too many weapons that act similar to each other.

    A brief example of the kinda weapons to use would be:

    Metal Blades for multi-directional attacks
    Dive Missiles for homing based attacks
    Ice Slasher for immobilizing
    Any kinda of shield weapon for protection
    Ring Boomerang which can attack enemies AND collect coins
    Rain Flush to attack all enemies on the screen

    Just an example. That's a wide range of abilities that Mega Man can use. I know that three of the weapons are from a single game but again, just to further express my idea.
     
  6. yerffej

    yerffej Level 4: Buzzy Beetle

    Some of the stuff mentioned I think would take away the idea of putting various characters into the SMB world, especially the health bar. This would kind of turn Mega Man into a side game compared to the central idea.
     
  7. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    I've considered this myself. A good variety would be best. That's why I went with Super Arm instead of Rolling Cutter, Gemini Laser instead of Shadow Blade, and Plant Barrier instead of any other weapon from Mega Man 6, because it is different enough.

    I suppose a good option from Mega Man would probably be Fire Storm, actually, since it's already in SMBC. Alternatively, Atomic Fire could be the option from Mega Man 2, since it would allow Mega Man to charge at any power-up level. I wouldn't expect both Fire Storm and Atomic Fire, however, since both are fire-based weapons.

    I'm pretty sure Jay already intends to do this, though. Every character would have their own health bar (or whatever they have in their own game). Mega Man wouldn't be the only one.

    Also, I think it's important to remember that a lot of people want more and more things included from each character's game. The more that is added, the less "simple" the game is, and the less like the original concept it becomes. I personally would like a nice balance that the game could become, maintaining a simple linear 1-1 to 8-4 run with the original power-up system while adding elements to each character's gameplay from those characters' own games. People want Mega Man's weapons included, and I am simply presenting my opinion on how best to do it. If Jay wants to make it significantly simpler, it's entirely his call. :)
     
  8. bnjay29

    bnjay29 Level 4: Buzzy Beetle

    That really is a lot of work to implement though. And it would be one hell of a cross over to include all that you proposed. But I for one would be fine with just the weapons to acquire.
     
  9. World 1-1

    World 1-1 Level 6: Lakitu

    Don't use Super Arm when fighting Bowser.
     
  10. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    Actually, in some of the castles there are bricks in Bowser's area, so you could use Super Arm against him! That would be sweet, actually.

    EDIT: I have another new idea for the special weapons, and this one I'm pretty excited about. After you've finished the game with Mega Man once (any difficulty), you unlock the ability to get new weapons. Then, completing the game on Hard or Extreme with any other character gives Mega Man a weapon based on that character's attacks. Completing the game with Mega Man, then, gives the Koopa Flame (completion of Hard mode) or the Koopa Hammer (completion of Extreme mode). Each of the weapons are as follows:

    Rizer Gun (Bill Rizer's Machine Gun)
    It would probably be best if this didn't consume a lot of weapon energy, perhaps 1 unit per six bullets (the max on screen at one time). The bullets aren't terribly powerful, so having a lot of usage wouldn't be too broken. This weapon could also be aimed in different directions (sadly only seven instead of eight, given the limited editing potential of Bass' sprites, but seven is still good, right?).

    [​IMG]

    Hylian Boomerang (Link's Boomerang)
    This shouldn't use much weapon energy at all (1 unit per two thrown?), and it should also be able to be thrown in eight directions, like Link can do.

    [​IMG]

    Super Fireball (Mario's Fireballs)
    These would have to deal significantly less damage, or use up a lot of weapon energy. The former is preferable, however, since too much weapon energy usage makes them run out too quickly. They could potentially use 2 units per fireball, however, although I would probably recommend just 1 unit per fireball.

    [​IMG]

    Ninja Stars (Ryu Hayabusa's Small and Windmill Shurikens)
    The basic attack would be throwing Small Shurikens, with the Windmill Shuriken being the attack if Mega Man charges up the attack. The Small Shurikens would probably use 1 unit each, while the charged Windmill Shuriken should use 2 or 3 units.

    [​IMG]

    Hunter Wave (Samus Aran's Wave Beam)
    Not much to say about the Aran Wave. Probably either 1 unit per shot, or 1 unit per three shots. It's a good weapon, but not super powerful.

    [​IMG]
    *Note the coloring is the Varia suit (Fire Flower power-up). It could easily be the red and yellow instead, which would be more iconic. I went with the Varia color instead because that's the power-up level on which Samus has the Wave Beam.

    Killer Axe (Simon Belmont's Axes)
    Mega Man should be able to throw up to two at a time, like the Super Mushroom Simon. Each axe should probably use up 1 unit of weapon energy.

    [​IMG]

    Hyper Cannon (SOPHIA's Hyper shot)
    The Hyper Cannon would have pretty decent strength, and should probably use up 1 unit per shot, if not 2.

    [​IMG]

    Koopa Flame
    This weapon would travel somewhat slowly, but would continually deal damage as it passed through an enemy or a brick (something like 1 hit per half second). It would probably use up at least 2 units per flame.

    [​IMG]

    Koopa Hammer
    This weapon would have an awkward arc similar to the hammers thrown by Mario in Super Mario Bros. 3 with the Hammer Bros. suit. Up to four hammers could be on the screen at one time, and they should be powerful enough to kill Buzzy Beetles, Spike Tops, and Bullet Bills. As such, with the rapid firing, they should probably use up at least 1 unit per hammer, possibly 2 units per hammer.

    [​IMG]

    Here's a fancy weapon screen to go along with all the weapons.

    Any thoughts?
     
  11. mitsymckenzie777

    mitsymckenzie777 Level 6: Lakitu

    I like sbq92's idea. Only to unlock Mega Man weapons you would have to first beat the game on normal difficulty with Mega Man. Then beat the game on any difficulty as the character whose weapon you want to unlock. Bowser's flame and hammers would be available by beating the game with everyone. Of course there could be a code too but it would be more fun to beat it regularly.
     
  12. Captain Rizer

    Captain Rizer Level 5: Spiny

    I don't wanna be a sourpuss but this would blow mega man way out of the water.

    I say is that maybe you get 2 new weapons at the most, (Beat 4-4 for the Bowser Flame and Beat 8-4 for hammers)

    And you can cycle through them by pressing th special button.
     
  13. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    I thought about the obvious high power level of Mega Man after getting all his weapons, and while he would certainly outclass all of the other characters, you do have to work hard for all the weapons. That's why I figured you should have to finish the game on Hard or Extreme with the other characters. Finishing the game on the higher difficulties several times is quite the feat for many people. Oh, I suppose if the player has any cheats active (aside from "harmless" ones such as the Classic cheats and maybe Mega Man's jump), the weapon cannot be obtained. All of the weapons after all the effort would be a nice reward. Besides, none of the weapons will necessarily be amazing anyway, it will just be nice to have some variety in his weapons.

    We should keep in mind that all of the other characters will potentially be getting a bunch of power-ups eventually as well, which makes Mega Man less obviously powered above the others.
     
  14. Sergy92

    Sergy92 Level 7: Bloober

    Yes, I like this.
     
  15. aliceandsven

    aliceandsven Level 9: Spike Top

    That is freaking amazing
     
  16. CHAOS_FANTAZY

    CHAOS_FANTAZY Level 6: Lakitu

    With all due respect...I'm going to have to say no to this idea. The last thing I want is for anyone to become a clone of another person. It'd be better if he had his actual special abilities. Due to the fact that Robot Masters are unlikely to be added, this is unlikely, though...
     
  17. bnjay29

    bnjay29 Level 4: Buzzy Beetle

    I think it's an awesome idea, but I would be satisfied if it were reduced to simply utilizing the alternate forms of rush. The Jet, Marine, and adapter units.
     
  18. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    I have considered this fact. It is true that it would make both a clone and a powerhouse of Mega Man by giving him the abilities of everyone else. Keep in mind this was merely a suggestion, and if it doesn't work out, no skin off my back. I think it would be cool to see the other characters' abilities incorporated into Mega Man's arsenal, but I fully acknowledge that there are a lot of things that would be cool to see in SMBC, most of which will probably never make it in. :)

    Another idea is simply that Mega Man gets Koopa Flame, Koopa Hammer, Rush Jet, Rush Marine, and perhaps a couple of abilities from his series. That way, you have some variety which includes both old and new, but not a ridiculous amount of weapons to make Mega Man overpowered. Here's a new thought for Mega Man's final arsenal:

    Mega Buster
    Super Arm (throwing bricks is practically necessary :p)
    Metal Blade (super iconic, could potentially be toned down a little perhaps?)
    [Something from Mega Man 3, 4, 5, or 6]
    Koopa Flame
    Koopa Hammer
    ----------------
    Rush Coil
    Rush Marine
    Rush Jet
    [Rush Power Adapter?]
    [Rush Jet Adapter?]

    All three (or five) Rush forms could be in the menu, and by selecting one of the Rush options, the Special button then always calls that version of Rush until a new Rush has been selected. It would almost be like a sub-menu.
     
  19. uglyrodent

    uglyrodent Level 9: Spike Top

    I think this is an amazing idea in general, but I don't really feel it would fit that well with the game.

    But the thought put into this is nothing less than amazing.
     
  20. bnjay29

    bnjay29 Level 4: Buzzy Beetle

    I second that! Hell I third, forth, and fifth it!
     

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