Official SMB Special vs. Lost Levels

Discussion in 'Game' started by Ryuza, Mar 29, 2012.


Which stages would be easier for us to add?

  1. SMB Special

    33 vote(s)
  2. Lost Levels

    45 vote(s)
  1. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    The point of adding SMBS levels is to be able to play the original SMBS but on a smoother platform with better graphics. We probably won't be "improving" the gameplay just because some things are a little odd. Because the Icicles never had the formation animation and didn't respawn afterwards (as far as I know), we likely won't be adding that functionality to them, since that's not how SMBS actually works. As for the Sidesteppers, it is an interesting idea since that's how they behave elsewhere, but since they don't behave that way in SMBS we probably won't be changing them.

    From what I've seen, the Barrels and Trouble Bugs (that's the fireball, right?) are identical except that Barrels can be destroyed using the Hammer item. I suspect we'll probably make the Barrels armored (like Buzzy Beetles, Spike Tops, and Bullet Bills) and the Trouble Bugs outright unkillable (like Firebars and Podoboos).

    Good catch. I guess the easiest solution would just be to remove the bottom coin block. We'll definitely be looking out for other such things. :)
    ThomasMink, Mitewing and MissingNo2 like this.
  2. Superjustinbros

    Superjustinbros Level 4: Buzzy Beetle

    It may be worth noting that if you use the Hammer in 3-4 to kill a Podoboo, it dies, but respawns immediately after.
    Barrels are armored like you said, but with the Trouble Bugs, they can only be defeated with a Star; the Hammer wouldn't work for them. (not sure what effect bumping them from below would do, but I'm going to say it kills them, unlike a Spiny.)

    If only a level editor existed for SMBS (mainly for the Sharp X1 version), it'd allow us to view everything, including what can kill what.
  3. Mitewing

    Mitewing Level 9: Spike Top

    It's odd that hammers can't hurt firebugs when in their game of origin, Donkey Kong, that's the only way to hurt them.
  4. Superjustinbros

    Superjustinbros Level 4: Buzzy Beetle

    Then I suppose with that, we should male Trouble Bugs vulnerable to hammers as well as stars.
    Mitewing likes this.
  5. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    But they weren't vulnerable to Hammers in SMBS... This isn't a revamping of SMBS, it's a level pack designed to imitate the game as closely as possible.
    Scorpion42 likes this.
  6. Superjustinbros

    Superjustinbros Level 4: Buzzy Beetle

    Well, let's put it this way: Hammers only appear in 3-4 and 5-1. Trouble Bugs do not appear in either of those levels. The Hammers in SMBS can only be used on Barrels, Podoboos, Bowser [not tested], and Fighter Flies, as they are the only enemies that appear after the collection point of each hammer. Trouble Bugs first appear on 7-4 and last appear on 8-2, neither feature a Hammer as a collectible item. And as Mite pointed out, Hammers could kill Trouble Bugs in Donkey Kong.
    Mitewing likes this.
  7. TheomanZero

    TheomanZero Level 9: Spike Top

    So it's really just a potential Level Editor issue then?
    Mitewing likes this.
  8. Superjustinbros

    Superjustinbros Level 4: Buzzy Beetle

  9. mitsymckenzie777

    mitsymckenzie777 Level 6: Lakitu

    Well there are already small inaccuracies in SMBC that you wouldn't know without a Game Genie or level editor...
    1. Bricks and floor tiles act the same as in they break in the original game.
    2. in all versions before 2.0 jumping on bloobers even in SMB1 in some Game Genie levels kills them. It was programed in the game that they could only be jumped on out of water where you can jump. Being your swimming in the water making jumps impossible. Note all characters in versions before 2.0 except Mario and Sophia III could jump underwater.
    3.Small fire Mario glitch from SMB1. Get a mushroom or fire flower in the castles in the SMB1 go to the end of the bridge by the ax wait for Bowser to reach the end with the ax and jump. If you hit Bowser and the ax at the same time you stay big but will die in one hit get a mushroom and you turn small but will act as if you were big. Get a flower your still small. You can't do this glitch in SMBC I don't think.
  10. Superjustinbros

    Superjustinbros Level 4: Buzzy Beetle

    In underwater levels, nothing could be stomped period, and neither was it possible to hit ? blocks in underwater levels. And with the "Small Fire Mario" glitch, I don't really find it necessary to add in SMBC since it's more of just a graphical glitch than anything.

    Though with SMBC, the first bullet with both the floor and brick tiles being breakable wouldn't be something good for levels made in the editor, especially since it'd cause cutoff with certain skins.

    If anyone here wants to try some of the stuff possible by "Game Gening" so you can play the original levels underwater (or just for giggles), here's three experimental hacks I made.
  11. Mew

    Mew Level 2: Koopa

    Just want to say this...

    Personally, regarding 'Super Mario Bros 1 VS', what really interest me is in the edits it makes to the stages to make them harder. By that, I mean the original game stages, not the Lost Levels ones put into the game.

    Simply put, many of SMBC's stages indeed get harder thanks to platform shrinking and tougher enemies but I think that having some of the SMB VS stage edits applying on higher difficulty levels would help make the higher difficulty levels even more effective.

    In particular, VS remove many safe spots and power-ups from the original game, such as notably the safe landing spot in most x-3 stages, forcing you to ride the platforms to get to the final 'staircase' rather than having the option of landing on the safe ground below and deal with just a lone walking red Koopa.

    I see SMB1 VS stage edits more as something to improve the hard modes, not as being worthy of being a level pack (since it's, well, a hard mode of SMB1 with Lost Levels levels thrown in).
  12. TheomanZero

    TheomanZero Level 9: Spike Top

    This is a potentially good idea, though it should probably be kept to Very Hard mode because Hard Mode is supposed to be based on the Second Quest from SMB.
  13. Mitewing

    Mitewing Level 9: Spike Top

    I'd rather have VS SMB separate from specific harder modes. One should be able to choose which levels they want to play THEN choose difficulty. That's why I wanted an extreme mode added after a very hard mode in another thread. I hate to have one hit kills when I want to play a game with spike tops and red piranha plants.
  14. TheomanZero

    TheomanZero Level 9: Spike Top

    Honestly, I'd rather have Hard Mode layouts separate from the other difficulty changes, too . . . though I worry we're starting to split hairs.

    Hmm . . . looking at those maps again, ANN has more layout changes than Vs. in some levels. Maybe I'm getting into crazy talk here, but perhaps we could combine the layout changes of Vs. and ANN into one Alternate Super Mario Bros. (needs better name)? It's not really "faithful", but it might be more worthwhile to have one significantly different version of SMB than two mildly different versions.
  15. Mew

    Mew Level 2: Koopa

    Well, frankly, my opinion is that the difficulty levels right now are approximative.

    The reason I suggested inspiring oneself from the VS SMB version is that, simply put, SMBC's difficulty levels are kind of schirzophrenic right now.

    Although the enemy edits work very well for Hard mode (which emulate the second quest) and Normal mode (which is the standart mode), Very Easy, Easy, and Very Hard suffer a bit.

    Mostly because being a Mario game, SMBC's main challenge is, in most levels, the platforming itself. Setting the game difficulty to Very Easy does nothing regarding the trickier jumps in the later worlds, which is the primary reason players will set the difficulty so low anyway.

    Likewise, although the Spike Tops and higher enemy HP work on 'melee' stages, it does little to make the more platforming-intensive stages, like most x-3 and x-4 levels (outside of 8-4) harder.

    This is why I suggested taking inspiration from Vs SMB ; I understand Hard mode not having edits as it mirror the second quest. But the jump to Very Hard is actually very minor since it only really affect Mario and Luigi. The VS SMB layout edits would do a good job of making Very Hard realy fit its description outside of just stopping Mario & Luigi from stomping some enemies.

    Mostly, I thought of this because of how moving platform and pulley platforms change in size from difficulty to difficulty and I wondered if, likewise, it would be possible to have the hardest mode have further edits to remove safe spots while having easier ones add extra ones. And I gave VS SMB as the base because VS SMB is essentially a canon 'hard mode' SMB1, with the game still recognizable (thus allowing the dev team not to have to come up with layout edits from scratch and with the game still feeling as SMB1).
  16. TheomanZero

    TheomanZero Level 9: Spike Top

    Don't forget about the one-hit kills -- those are pretty important in my opinion.

    For that matter, you can kick Buzzy Beetle shells, so when you see a row of them, only the first one is really an issue. With Spike Tops you have to deal with every one.
    Mitewing likes this.
  17. Mitewing

    Mitewing Level 9: Spike Top

    I think almost everyone is in agreement that the new levels (LL and Special) and the variations (VS and ANN) should be their own separate level packs.
  18. Mew

    Mew Level 2: Koopa

    Well... in that case, I still support the SMB VS level set being put in for those who want a level set that is still close to the SMB1 one but is harder without being radically different like the Special and Lost Levels sets are.
  19. Superjustinbros

    Superjustinbros Level 4: Buzzy Beetle

    VS and ANN use some Lost Levels in place of duplicate stages (5-3, 5-4, 6-4, 7-2, and 7-3), but other than that, there's nothing else I can say.

    Though if by any means someone starts hacking SMBS or makes a utility for either the PC88 or Sharp X1 versions, please let me know.
    Mitewing likes this.
  20. Mitewing

    Mitewing Level 9: Spike Top

    Has it been decided concerning what to do with the Hammer? Can everyone use it or will it be a Mario Bros exclusive powerup?

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