Special Weapons for All Characters

Discussion in 'Characters' started by sbq92, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    I have posted this idea elsewhere for Mega Man and Link, but I decided to start a thread that will allow for discussion of all of the special weapons in the game for all of the characters.

    Here is what I think is a good idea for implementing the special weapons for all of the characters. Every time you finish the game with a character on a particular difficulty setting, a special weapon is unlocked for that character. For some characters, the weapon will then always be accessible each subsequent play through of the game. For other character, the new weapons will then be available throughout the game. Here is a tentative list:

    Bill Rizer
    Normal: Fire Gun (from Super C...it's much better than the Fireball weapon from the first game)
    Extreme: Laser

    *When Bill gets a Super Mushroom, a "cycle" button would enable him to cycle between the Machine Gun and the Fire Gun. When Bill gets a Fire Flower, the "cycle" button would enable him to cycle among Machine Gun, Fire Gun, Spread Gun, and Laser. These weapons would always be accessible after finishing the game provided Bill has the appropriate power-up level.

    Link
    Super Easy: Magical Boomerang
    Easy: Bow & Arrow
    Normal: Bomb
    Hard: Red Candle
    Extreme: Magic Wand

    *The Magical Boomerang would only be accessible after finishing Super Easy mode. Fire Flower Link would retain the normal Boomerang until Super Easy is completed. The special weapons would always be available after completing the game, and they could be accessed via a menu and/or "cycle" buttons.

    Mario
    *No changes necessary. Mario already has access to all of the abilities he should have access to in the original SMB. (Some of the power-ups from SMB3 could potentially be added, but that is up to Jay. Mario is already a very good character, since the game was originally designed for his play style.)

    Mega Man
    Super Easy: Super Arm
    Easy: Water Wave (or anything else from MM3-6)
    Normal: Koopa Flame, Rush Marine
    Hard: Koopa Hammer, Rush Jet
    Extreme: Metal Blade

    *Mega Man's default weapon with a Fire Flower would still be the fire-based weapon (either Fire Storm or a change to Atomic Fire). The special weapons would always be available after completing the game, and they could be accessed via a menu and/or "cycle" buttons.

    Ryu Hayabusa
    *I'm not familiar enough with all of Ryu's special abilities and their strengths and weaknesses, so this is up for discussion. Regardless of which special abilities are added, however, enemies would randomly drop ammo, and sometimes a special ability. Completing the game adds a new special ability to the list of random special abilities that could be dropped.

    Samus Aran
    Normal: Ice Beam
    Extreme: Screw Attack?

    *Samus pretty much already has all of her abilities from Metroid. Perhaps Ice Beam could be accessed via a "cycle" button when she has a Fire Flower. Also, Screw Attack could possibly be implemented after completing Extreme, but this is debatable, given how broken the attack would be in the SMB world.

    Simon Belmont
    Super Easy or Easy: Dagger
    Normal: Holy Water
    Hard: Cross
    Extreme: Stopwatch

    *Simon would begin with the Axe (although alternatively the Axe could be obtained after finishing Super Easy or Easy and he starts with the Dagger instead). Enemies would randomly drop hearts as ammo, and sometimes a special weapon. Completing the game adds a new special weapon to the list of random special weapons that could be dropped.

    SOPHIA III
    Normal: Homing Missiles
    Extreme: Lightning

    *This setup has SOPHIA start out with the normal Missiles as a special weapon instead of Homing Missiles. After completing the game on Normal, SOPHIA can access the Homing Missiles with a "cycle" button, and likewise with the Lightning after finishing Extreme. Enemies would randomly drop ammo for the weapons SOPHIA has access to, and thus as weapons are unlocked, the different types of ammo would be unlocked as well.

    Feel free to add to these suggestions! I personally think this method of obtaining special weapons would be great and a lot of fun, but if you have a better method in mind, post it in this thread! :)
     
  2. aliceandsven

    aliceandsven Level 9: Spike Top

    Here are Ryu's moves:

    spinning jump slash. (NG I) But that might be too powerful, it's sort of like the screw attack.

    The upward fire wheel ninpo (NG I)

    The downward thunder orb ninpo (NG II)

    Both of these fire diagonally, up or down respectively. A little weird in my opinion considering SMB

    the fire wheel barrier (NG I) could potentially replace the current flashing star man sequence.

    Shadow Clones (NG II), when you acquire one it begins following Ryu's movements through the level, but it attacks whenever you attack (it even uses Ninpo when you do), you can have up to THREE.

    Some kind of double boomerang attack that just goes up and down... (NG III)

    He already has two of his "ninpo" (shuriken, and windmill shuriken). However the windmill shuriken from NG II is quite different, it's smaller and seems to move faster

    EDIT: I have just realized both NG2 and 3 are on the NES and thus valid sources for new content. I will return once I've refreshed my memory on the powers from those games!
     
  3. World 1-1

    World 1-1 Level 6: Lakitu

    I don't think it should be by difficult. It would be better to choose a single one special instead, no matter the difficult.

    To Samus, something cool would be if you have to choose between Wave beam and Ice beam.
     
  4. Diego Jurado Noboa

    Diego Jurado Noboa Level 4: Buzzy Beetle

    Ryu Hayabusa could either get:
    -Flame wheels (the one he throws like 3 of them diagonally upwards)
    -Spinning blade (kinda like screw attack)
    -Illusions (clones of himself appear behind him to mimic his moves)
    EDIT:
    And I also suggested that Ryu could get the flame wheel that surrounds his body, when he gets a star power up. Basically to mimic how invinsibility is portrayed in Ninja Gaiden.

    I like the ideas for Megaman, I guess I'll throw some more.
    -Rush Jet/Marine
    -Jet Suit (MM6)
    -Power Suit (MM6)

    Metal Blade's awesome though. Could hardly beat that... Unless they give him the random factor, where he cycles between some powers (e.g. Leaf shield, metal blades, air cannon, bubble lead, and atomic fire)
     
  5. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    Thanks for the weapon info, aliceandsven! We should flesh out which difficulty levels grant which abilities.

    The different difficulties do add to the replay value, which is basically what I was going for. The characters each essentially become better and better as you finish the game on different difficulty settings. I personally would rather see more than just a single special ability for each character. I suppose an alternative to the difficulties would be simply completing the game a certain number of times no matter the difficulty (or on Normal and higher).

    Also, while the best special weapons would become available by finishing Extreme, all of the special weapons would have their place and use in the game, and I suspect most people would want to gather all of the special weapons anyway. If it's there to unlock, I assume most people will want to unlock it, even if it's for a character they don't usually play as. :)
     
  6. Captain Knight

    Captain Knight Level 6: Lakitu

    I was thinking Ice Beam for Extreme, since it's the best weapon EVAR and the Screwattack would be SO cheap.
     
  7. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    This gives me an idea (and perhaps it's been mentioned elsewhere before): Different Star Man effects for each character. Obviously Mario gets the normal invincibility. Perhaps Mega Man could get a barrier (Jewel is the strongest, but Leaf is more iconic and is from the NES). Samus could get Screw Attack and actually has to spin jump to be invincible. Bill gets the Barrier item from Super C. Link...OHKOs? That would make the Star Man useless on Super Easy. Hmm...well, anyway, something could be done for each of the characters.
     
  8. Diego Jurado Noboa

    Diego Jurado Noboa Level 4: Buzzy Beetle

    I know it's not prominent from 8-Bit Samus... but how about the Turbo run? It's the closest thing to invincibility in Metroid. And it'd be CRAZY to go at those blistering speeds, ramming blocks and everything in your way. The only difference would be that you don't need to build up speed, just touch the star item.
     
  9. Mitewing

    Mitewing Level 9: Spike Top

    I think as many weapons should be added as possible from the original games. Although I don't think you should have to unlock them.Characters lile Link, Mega Man and Sophia should have their respective weapon menus. The others could have a "cycle" or "toggle" button for their weapons obtained from enemy drops.
     
  10. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    Where's the fun in that? :p

    IMO, having all weapons/abilities unlocked from the beginning would be kind of boring. Sure, it would be nice for the people who just want to sit down and play casually and have everything available, but in Link's games and Mega Man's games at least, you have to find and earn your special weapons as you progress. Completing the game on various difficulties to unlock different weapons is a fun way of adding to replay value. However, they could still be obtained in other ways perhaps, such as after each world, etc.
     
  11. Mitewing

    Mitewing Level 9: Spike Top

    I wouldn't mind unlocking them after each world regardless of the difficulty
     
  12. sbq92

    sbq92 Level 9: Spike Top

    <warning>Brace yourself! This is another relatively long post from me.</warning> :p

    I think there are definitely pros and cons of each method of gaining access to the special weapons (completing each difficulty, completing each world, available from beginning), and different methods work better for different characters.

    The advantage of the difficulty completion method is obvious: replay value. This method essentially forces a replay factor, since it requires you to finish the game five times with each character (or most characters) in order to maximize each character's potential. This does naturally work better with some characters, such as Link and Mega Man, and not so naturally with others, such as Bill, Ryu, and Simon. Unfortunately, the difficulty method is a double-edged sword in that it's advantage is also its drawback: you have to finish the game in order to get any special abilities. Those who wish to simply pick up the game and play for 20 minutes unfortunately have to miss out on the special abilities. This does sort of line up the game with current, trends, however. The special abilities behave sort of like DLC (downloadable content), which is something that those who simply wish to pick up a game and play for 20 minutes will generally miss out on anyway. Still, it is unfortunate for those people, and I doubt they're okay with the fact that they are missing out on content that could have easily been added for free.

    The advantage of the level completion method is that everyone who plays gets to pick up special weapons as they play. This works well for every character, and it shows obvious progress (aside from simply getting further in the game). Of course, whether or not the special weapons are retained after completing the game would have to be decided, and either option has its own advantages and drawbacks. If they are retained, that would be great, and the player would get to enjoy subsequent play throughs with all the special weapons available. This minimizes replay value, however, since all that is required is one play through. (It would be great for speedruns, however.) If the special weapons are not retained, it minimizes the opportunity to use the later weapons, but it does add a bit of replay value, and it adds some strategy by allowing the player to try to find the best ways to utilize the new weapons as they become available and in the levels they are available.

    The advantage of the always available method is that everyone always get to use all of the special weapons. This works very well for characters like Bill, Ryu, and Simon, and while it certainly works for characters like Link and Mega man, it lacks the functionality of those characters from their original games (although admittedly this isn't much of a drawback). The main drawback of this feature is the lack of replay value (at least as far as special weapons are concerned). This is also admittedly not a huge drawback considering there are already cheats to unlock and the game is already quite fun as it is. One other drawback is that having all of the weapons available from the outset makes it so that potentially overpowered weapons cannot be included (or they would have to be nerfed). IMO, this is the biggest drawback of this method.

    Well, those are my thoughts. If you read it, I hope you found it helpful. Keep in mind that I am merely presenting pros and cons here, and hopefully I have done so objectively. I also recognize that these methods aren't the only available methods. They are only the most represented (as far as I can tell).
     
  13. Mitewing

    Mitewing Level 9: Spike Top

    Here's an idea for Link's weapons progression :
    W1: Boomerang
    W2: Bomb
    W3: Red Candle
    W4: Magic Boomerang
    W5: Bow/Silver Arrow
    W6: Magic Wand
    W7: Book of Magic
     
  14. Scorpion42

    Scorpion42 Level 6: Lakitu

    One problem i have with this game is that not all characters are built for the gameplay style mushrooms and fireflowers add. While Simon has to upgrade his whip each time he dies in Castlevania, he doesn't lose a level when he is hit. Instead, he has a health bar that depletes and can only be replenished with pork chops. There is no equivalent of pork chops in Super Mario Bros. The closest thing would be the Mushroom and fireflowers. If they in addition to upgrading your whip also replenished your health, you would have a good reason to grab them even when at maximum whip level.

    Another element Super Mario Bros. doesn't have is Sub-weapons, an element seen in both Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden. Whilst Mario only has to be Fire Mario to throw fireballs, Simon and Ryu has to not only collect the sub-weapons, but also enough hearts/jutsu to use them. From this I can conclude that to stay as true to the original Castlevania as possible, Jay would have to either make subweapons, hearts (and whip upgrades?) drop from killed enemies like in Castlevania, or completely remove them.

    However, that brings us to a different, but not as important issue: Gameplay and story segregation. Because why does the mushrooms not make Simon grow twice his size? On the gameplay side, it's because he would become 4 blocks tall, and that is just ridiculous, but on the story side it makes no sense. Granted, Super Mario Bros. didn't have much story in the first place: Go to Bowser's castle, kill him and rescue the princess. And I already said that it wasn't a big issue, not even to me, but it's there.

    Also, the difficulty levels are perfect as it is. They shouldn't change the game in the way the OP is suggesting, because that is not what difficulty does.
     

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